Ramana Maharshi on Guru

Q: What is Guru's grace? How does it lead to self realisation?

A: Guru is the self. Sometimes in his life man becomes dissatisfied and, not content with what he has, he seeks the satisfaction of his desires through prayer to God. His mind is gradually purified until he longs to know God, more to obtain his grace than to satisfy his worldly desires. Then God's grace begins to manifest. God takes the form of a Guru and appears to the devotee, teaches him the truth and, moreover, purifies his mind by association. The devotee's mind gains strength and is then able to turn inward. By meditation it is further purified and it remains still without the least ripple. That calm expanse is the Self. The Guru is both external and internal. From the exterior he gives a push to mind to turn inwards. From the interior he pulls the mind towards the self and helps in quietening of the mind. That is Guru's grace. There is no difference between God, Guru and the Self.

Q: In Theosophical Society they meditate in order to seek masters to guide them.

A: The master is within; meditation is meant to remove the ignorant idea that he is only outside. If he is a stranger whom you await, he is bound to disappear also. What is the use of a transient being like that? But so long as you think that you are separate, or that you are the body, an external master is also necessary and he will appear to have a body. When the wrong identification of oneself with the body ceases, the master will be found to be none other than the self.

Q: Will the Guru help us to know the Self through initiation?

A: Does the Guru hold you by hand and whisper in the ear? You may imagine him to be what you are yourself. Because you think you are with a body, you think he also has a body and that he will do something tangible to you. His work lies within, in spiritual realm.

Q: How is Guru found?

A: God, who is immanent, in his grace takes pity on the loving devotee and manifests himself according to the devotees development. The devotee thinks that he is a man and expects a relationship between two physical bodies. But the Guru who is God or the Self incarnate works from within, helps the man to see the error of his ways and guides him on the right path until he realises the Self within.

Q: What are the marks of real teacher (Sadguru)?

A:Steady abidance in the Self, looking at all with an equal eye unshakeable courage at all times, in all places and circumstances.

A: Choose that one where you find Shanti (peace).

A: He who instructs an ardent seeker to do this or that is not a true master. The seeker is already afflicted by his activities and wants peace and rest. In other words he wants cessation of his activities. If a teacher tells him to do something to do in addition to or in place of, his other activities, can that be a help to the seeker? Activity is creation. Activity is the destruction of one's inherent happiness. If activity is advocated the advisor is not a master but a killer. In such circumstances either the Creator (Brahma) or the Death (Yama) may be said to have come in guise of a master. Such a person cannot liberate the Aspirant, he can only strengthen his fetters.

A: By intense meditation.

A: Although in absolute truth the state of Guru is that of oneself (the Self), it is very hard for the Self which has become the individual (Jiva) through ignorance to realise its true state or nature without the grace of Guru.

A: It is beyond words of thoughts.

A: It is like the elephant which wakes up on seeing a lion in its dream. Even as the elephant wakes up at the mere sight of the lion, so too is it certain that the disciple wakes up from the sleep of ignorance into the wakefulness of true knowledge through Guru's benevolent look of grace.

Q: What is the significance of saying that the nature of real Guru is that of the Supreme Lord (Sarveshvara)?

A: First, the individual soul which desires to attain the state of Godhood, or the state of true knowledge, practises incessant devotion. When the individual's devotion has reached a mature stage, the Lord, who is the witness of that individual's soul and identical with it, manifests. He appears in the human form with the help of Sat-Chit-Ananda, his three natural features, and form and name which he also graciously assumes. In the guise of blessing the disciple he absorbs him in himself. According to this the Guru can truly be called the Lord.

Q: How then did some great persons attain knowledge without a Guru?

A: To a few mature persons Lord shines as the formless light of knowledge and imparts awareness of the truth.

A: He is the real Guru to whom your mind is attuned. If you ask 'How to decide who is the Guru and what is his swarupa?', he should be endowed with tranquility, patience, forgiveness and other virtues; he should be capable of attracting others even with his eyes just as magnet attracts iron; he should have a feeling of equality towards all. He who has these virtues is the true Guru, but if one wants to know the swarupa of the Guru, one must know one's own swarupa first how can one know the real nature of Guru if one does not know one's own real nature first? If you want to perceive the real nature or form of the Guru you must first learn to look upon the whole Universe as Guru Rupam (the form of the Guru). One must see the Guru in all living beings. It is the same with God. You must look upon all objects as God's Rupa (form). How can he who does not know his own Self perceive the real form of God or the real form of the Guru? How can he determine them? Therefore, first of all know your own real form and nature.

A: That's true. The world contains many great men. Look upon him as your Guru with whom your mind gets attuned. The one in whom you have faith is your Guru.

A: Liberation is not anywhere outside you. It is only within. If a man is anxious for deliverance, the internal Guru pulls him in and the external Guru pushes him into the Self. This is the grace of the Guru.

A: I have never said that there is no need for a Guru.

A: It all depends on what you call a Guru. He need not be in a human form. Dattatreya had twenty-four gurus including the five elements-Earth, Water etc. Every object in this earth was his Guru. The Guru is absolutely necessary. The upanishads say that none but a Guru can take a man out of the jungle of intellect and sense perceptions. So there must be a Guru.

A: I might have had one at one time or other. Did I not sing hymns to Arunachala. What is a Guru? Guru is the God or the Self. First a man prays to God to fulfil his desires. A time comes when he will no more pray for the fulfillment of material desires but for God himself. God then appears to him in some form or other, human or non-human, and to guide him to himself in answer to his prayer and according to his needs.

A: Guru is only one. He is not physical. So long as there is weakness the support of strength is needed.

A: How did he know it. One can say so after realising but not before.

A: Help is always there.

A: Surrender and you will find.

A: The Sadguru (The Guru who is one with the being) is within.

A: The Sadguru is within.

A: The visible Guru says that he is within.

A: Yes, it is. Is not your practice itself due to such grace? The fruits are the results of the practice and follow it automatically. There is a stanza in Kaivalya which says, 'O Guru! You have been always within me, watching through several reincarnations, and ordaining my course until I was liberated'. The Self manifests externally as the Guru when the occasion arises, otherwise he is always within, doing what is necessary.

A: They secure concentration by that.

A: Certainly, but after all, Guru only means Guri, Concentration.

A: That is true. Even so, by worshipping a lifeless portrait, the mind gets concentrated to a certain extent. That concentration will not remain constant unless one knows one's Self by enquiring. For that enquiry, Guru's help is necessary.

A: Yes, The Guru does not bring the Self realisation. He simply removes the obstacles to it. The Self is always realised.

A: So long as you seek Self-realisation Guru is necessary. Guru is the Self. Take Guru to be the real self and your self as the individual self. The disappearance of this sense of duality is the removal of ignorance. So long as duality persists in you the Guru is necessary. Because you identify yourself with the body you think the Guru is also a body. You are not the body nor is the Guru. You are the self and so is the Guru. This knowledge is gained by what you call Self-realisation.

A: By peace of mind found in his presence and by the sense of respect you feel for him.

A: Each one according to his merits.

A: Grace is always there.

A: Surrender will make one understand the grace.

A: If you had surrendered the questions will not arise.

A: Grace is constant. Your judgement is variable. Where else should the fault lie?

A: Who is the master? He is the Self after all. According to the stages of development of mind the Self manifests as the master externally. The famous ancient saint Dattatreya said that he had more than twenty- four masters. The master is one from whom one learns anything. The Guru may be sometimes inanimate also, as in the case of Dattatreya, God, guru and Self are identical.

A spiritually minded man thinks that God is all-pervading and takes God for his Guru. Later God brings him in contact with a personal Guru and man recognises him as all in all. Lastly the same man is made by the grace of the master to feel that his Self is the reality and nothing else. Thus he finds that the Self is the master.

A: 'Ishwaro Gururatmeti' -Ishvara, Guru and Self are identical. So long as the sense of duality persists in you, you seek a Guru, thinking that he is different from you. However he teaches you the truth and you gain the insight. He who bestows the supreme knowledge of Self upon the soul by making it face towards the Self, alone is the supreme Guru who is praised by the sages as the form of God, who is the Self. Cling to him. By approaching the Guru and serving him faithfully one should learn through his grace the cause of one's birth and one's suffering. Knowing then that these are due to one's straying from Self, it is best to abide firmly as Self. Although those who have embraced and are steadfastly following the path to salvation may at times swerve from the vedic part either due to forgetfulness or due to some other reasons, know that they should not at any time go against the words of the Guru. The words of sages assure that if one does a wrong to God, it can be rectified by the Guru, but that a wrong done to a Guru cannot be rectified even by God. For one who, due to rare, intense and abundant love, has complete faith in the glance of grace bestowed by the Guru, there will be no suffering and he will live in this world like Puruhuta (a name of Indra, the king of Gods).

Peace, the one thing which is desired by everyone, cannot be attained in any way, by anyone, at any time or in any place, unless stillness of mind is obtained through the grace of Sadguru. Therefore seek that grace with a one-pointed mind.

A: Where are you going? You are not going anywhere. Even supposing you are the body, has your body come from Lucknow to Thiruvannamalai? You simply sat in the car and one conveyance or another moved. And finally you say that you have come here. The fact is that you are not the body. The Self does not move, the world moves in it. You are only what you are. There is no change in you. So then, even after what looks like departure from here, you are here and there and everywhere. These scenes shift.

As for grace, grace is within you. If it is external it is useless. Grace is the Self. You are never out of its operation. Grace is always there.

A: Grace is the Self. I have already said, if you remember Bhagavan, you are prompted to do so by the Self. Is not grace already there? Is there a moment when grace is not operating in you? Your remembrance is the forerunner of grace. That is the response, that is the stimulus, that is the Self and that is the grace. There is no cause for anxiety.

A: The very fact that you are possessed of the quest for the Self is the manifestation of the divine grace. It is effulgent in the heart, the inner being, the real Self. It draws you from within. You have to attempt to get in from outside. Your attempt is the earnest quest, the deep inner movement is grace. That is why I say there is no real quest without grace, nor is there a grace active for him who does not seek the Self. Both are necessary.

A: Guru is necessary as long as there is ignorance. Ignorance is due to the self-imposed but wrong limitation of the Self. God on being worshipped, bestows steadiness in devotion which leads to surrender. On the devotee surrendering, God show his mercy by manifesting as the Guru. The Guru, otherwise God, guides the devotee, saying that God is within and that he is not different from the Self. This leads to introversion of mind and finally to realisation.

A: Effort is necessary up to the state of realisation. Even then the Self should spontaneously become evident, otherwise happiness will not be complete. Up to that state of spontaneity, there must be effort in some form or the other.

There is a state beyond our efforts or effortlessness. Until it is realised effort is necessary. After tasting such bliss, even once, one would repeatedly try to regain it. Having once experienced the bliss of peace no one wants to be out of it or to engage in any other activity.

A: Divine grace is essential for realisation. But such grace is vouchsafed only to him who is a true devotee or a yogi. It is given only to those who have striven hard and ceaselessly on the path towards freedom.

A: Time and space are within us. You are always in your Self. How do time and space affect it?

A: No.

A: That shows that all are one.

A: You are neck-deep in water and yet cry for water. It is as good as saying that one neck-deep in water feels thirsty, or that water feels thirsty.

Grace is always there. Dispassion cannot be acquired, nor realisation of truth, nor inherence in the Self, in the absence of Guru's grace.

But practise is also necessary. Staying in the Self by one's efforts is like training a roguish Bull confined to his stall by tempting with luscious grass and preventing him from straying.

A: That is impossible. It is necessary both for you to strive and for Guru to help.

A: Why do you desire to know?

A: Even such a desire is an obstacle. The Self is ever there, there is nothing without it. Be the Self and the desires and doubts will disappear.

Grace is the beginning, middle and end. Grace is the Self. Because of the false identification of the Self with the body the Guru is considered to be a body. But from the Guru's outlook the Guru is only the Self. The Self is one only and the Guru tells you that the Self alone is. Is not then the Self your Guru? Where else will grace come from? It is from the Self alone. Manifestation of the Self is the Manifestation of the grace and vice versa. All these doubts arise because of wrong outlook and consequent expectation of things external to oneself. Nothing is external to the Self.